Is advertising becoming a total waste of fucking time?

Some interesting comments from "Toad" and "Theo Kie" and "Popgoestheweasel" on my post of June 21st about Toads deflation of full of shit CD's. I agree with them all on the fact that in the desperate struggle of BDA's to convince BDC's of their relevance, it's all starting to get very "New Age" with all the ever increasing bullshit about meaningful interaction, fulfilling on-line experiences, SecondLife, holistic blah, blah, blah. Every time I talk to people at conferences or when judging student awards etc., I never stop going on about CONTENT. Everything else is merely mechanics, or simply a way to deliver CONTENT. As Theo asked, it was Howard Gossage who said "People don't read advertising, they read what they are interested in." Jesus, it's obvious, yet when you look at all the crap being churned out, I despair so many people seem to have forgotten that we are in the communications business. So why is so much of what we do facile, juvenile, and in many cases, totally irrelevant to the people we are trying to communicate with? Am I missing something here? Fuck, it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

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Comments

[Steve Feinberg]

George, in answer to your (rhetorical) question: it's facile because ad people, like most people, are lazy. It's juvenile because the people creating it are in their 20s or trying to pretend they are. It's totally irrelevant because most people creating--and approving--advertising have no fucking idea how ordinary people think, live or shop.

But you knew that. Cheers.

[George Parker]

Steve...
Yes... You too are so right. Maybe as I get older I become more and more curmudgeonly, but fuck it, I think most of the young people in the business now missed out on the "Good Old Days." But they'll probably say the same thing in twenty years!
Cheers/George

[Tangerine Toad]

Excellent points Steve.

I'll add one more: most of the Web 2.0 types aren't creatives. They're media planners who don't really see the point of good creative.

As to having "no fucking idea how ordinary people think, live or shop" I could not agree more.

In fact, I wrote about that very thing just yesterday:

http://tangerinetoad.blogspot.com/2007/06/your-brand-is-not-my-friend-web-20.html

[Robert Rosenthal]

Great to see you writing about this chronic problem, George. Here are a few contributors:
- The industry isn't attracting enough genuine superstars.
- A lot of marketers (including agencies) are largely clueless when it comes to putting together awesome campaigns.
- Not enough managers are willing to stand up for what's right.

[the lower depths]

robert, an opinion on your points above:

• superstars, genuine or not, are bored to tears as they, and everyone else, is run through the wringer with meeting after meeting, supersuit and client hand-holding sesions and briefs and strategies that kind of look like bad reruns of 20 year old soap operas dressed in new verbage...hence they come and go at alarming rates.

• the cluelessness comes from believing your own hype about your reach and depth, both agency and client.

• as for standing for what's right, or fighting the good fight, that went out the window as the quarterly reports came in and the board was pissed that their revenues dropped and the command from Mt. Olympus came down to get with the client satisfaction program and shore up that bottom line in time for the next round of bonuses.

a sad state of affairs indeed, but i believe there's hope. in the eveolution of things, the small furry mammals (more dynamic, smaller less political shops) will again emerge as the dinosaurs gradually go extinct.

you can't be monolithic AND nimble, far removed AND in touch nor driven by committes AND able to make a short, sharp decision. clients are beginning to see that and are starting to react.

it'll be interesting to see where it goes.

[theo kie]

Unfortunately, this client stampede toward the web is just another sign of trying to get more for less, all the while looking "cutting edge" to their often clueless, older bosses. This is hardly a sign that clients are becoming more creative or taking more risks.

I would rather have one "superstar" client than a dozen superstar creatives. Without a truly open-minded client open to exploration can you do truly good, 360 work. While it would be great to see lower depths' "small furry animals" take over, the dinosaurs that squash good ideas aren't agencies, but clients. I really don't see some radical shifting in their thinking, no matter how many conference speeches and corporate press releases promise such.

[Tangerine Toad]

What Theo said. Especially about clients thinking the Web is great because there are actual numbers attached to their online efforts (5,679 click-throughs!) and clients love shit like that.

I'll also throw this into the mix (and yes, it's the subject of another blog post of mine) - the one thing the web has done is make consumers smarter. It's a lot easier to get objective information about products and services these days online. Kind of like a giant Consumer Reports. The end result of that is that consumers are more immune than ever to advertising.

http://tangerinetoad.blogspot.com/2007/06/real-digital-revolution.html

[Steve Feinberg]

Theo's comment about preferring 1 superstar client to 12 superstar creatives is so right.

A dirty little secret about our business is that a great client can get great work out of a BDA (to use George's term) because every BDA has someof creatives capable of doing that level work. And a crappy client can make Goodby look bad. Well, maybe not Goodby, but certainly TBWA or Fallon.

[Tangerine Toad]

Another reason we've stopped getting creative superstars is we've stopped paying for them.

Creative salaries have dropped - both for staff and freelance.

About once a month I get a phone call from a headhunter that goes something like this:

HEADHUNTER: Hi, I have this really great Creative Director job open at (insert name of well-known interactive agency here) and I was wondering if you knew anyone who was looking.

ME: (Amazed that headhunter doesn't know anyone on her own, but figuring that playing along may benefit me someday) I might. What are the specs.

HEADHUNTER: Well it's running a group of about 10 people, they have some really great accounts that are doing some really cutting edge work. And they have really great benefits.

ME: (Cutting to the chase) What are they looking to pay?

HEADHUNTER: They'll go up to around 150. Maybe 160 if they really love the person.

ME: Oh, sorry. I thought you said it was a CD job, not an ACD.

HEADHUNTER: It is a CD job, Toad. That's what they're paying these days.

ME: (incredulous as ever) And people are taking it? I mean good people?

HEADHUNTER: Well.... I keep telling them they need to go up, but they're pretty firm about it. (Translation: Of course they can't get anyone decent. That's why I'm calling you for leads, schmuck. All they've seen is a bunch of 28 year olds and few guys who worked at Bates and have been out of work for 3 years.)

And so it goes...

[George Parker]

Toad...
Sad, fucking sad... The glory days are over. And, they're never coming back!
Cheers/George

[kypar]

I think the technology needs to advance before any one media is killed off. For instance, eight plus years from now people might refer to this time as the transitionary point. Most of the technology is still very siloed from others: TV, email, YouTube, Myspace, etc........none of these products TRUELY integrate with one another. Someday soon they, or their replacements, will. I think what Advertisers miss TODAY is the concept alluded to by Toad about MultiTasking: the younger consumer doesn't just watch TV, then read a magazine, and then surf the web.....it's all simultaneous and they're able to absorb and process all that information. YES, good story telling and creative will live on and prove their necessity once we're past the transitionary point. Regarding the Theater, it might die once TV becomes HD 3D hollogram images with sensory devices that make the movie a reality in your living room. I just hope I have enough money to afford it.

[Richard-in-Tokyo]

Interesting that the consensus on this thread is that we in this business have no idea how ordinary people today "think, live or shop".

Infact, this was wholeheartedly endorsed by Toad, who then went on to describe a conversation with a headhunter about a CD possition offering a paltry $160K.

Anyone else see the irony in this?

[Tangerine Toad]

Not at all Richard-in-Tokyo.
CD positions at general agencies in NYC used to command twice that.
But the point wasn't "oh the poor underpaid ad people" It was "there aren't very many people with the talent to be advertising superstars. If we keep cutting their salaries, they'll find some other creative field to be superstars in."
It's a market economy. Really talented people are drawn to the types of jobs where the payoff is greatest. I mean there's a whole chapter in Freakonomics about this (the one about drug dealers) - he does a better job of explaining it than I do.

[KBAM]

Toad,

Your blog piece, "The Real Digital Revolution," is incisive. Still, it's uncivilized to honor--or vilify--digital media, social networking, and consumer empowerment as cosmic strikes to advertising's soul. These are but furnishings of 21st century culture.

As a case in point, consider US wireless service, a $130B+ industry with 233mm+ subscribers. For no consumer expenditure is there a greater digital dynamic. In addition to traditional media, countless Web properties are devoted to levitating and trading in a bounty of information and opinion on every aspect of mobility. Just one Web forum, HowardForums.com, is a repository of more than 9.1mm posts.

Do these media "destroy the power of advertising?" Not at all. They call for its accountability.

The need for strategic positioning and tactical deployment of carriers' wireless value propositions--advertising's heavy lifting--has never been greater. Just look at the ignominy of Sprint, a beached whale of 53.6mm subscribers and 27.6% annualized churn.

What does the Sprint brand stand for and why should anyone care? Currently, nobody knows and nobody does.

Digital avengers did not beach Sprint. Sprint did. While its product is worthy, its culture is not. Sprint lost 220,000 customers in Q1.

After customer service, no investment can better lead Sprint to redemption and results than authentic advertising messages--for analog and digital worlds. It must create traction in a hurry and then, survive its legacy. Without a Hail Mary from advertising's finest, Sprint's relevance is doomed, its management unemployed and its independence over.

--BAM

[the lower depths]

theo, you said: "the dinosaurs that squash good ideas aren't agencies, but clients." sorry to disagree.

before the client can even get a whiff of an idea, it generally has to to throught the interminable internal process where we are speaking to _________, fill in your choice of dimmest bulb in the room and trying to convince them of the merit.

either some AE that "doesn't get the relevance" or a CD that's doing more management that creative direction or the marketing guru that needs to see more above and below line interaction from the concept, etc.

you get my drift, which goes to my point about fighting the good fight. an idea no longer stands on it's own merit anymore. this is disposable intellectual property we dispense. today's campaign is tomorrow's AdScam fodder.

no one is will to throw a good idea out there without being reassured up and down by the chain of command that all the tired old brains in the room agree and it is been homogenized. that's a big reason why most advertising makes you yawn and hit the mute button instead of sit up and take notice.

we boil the crap out of an idea before we send it along to the client. not absolving the client of demanding better work, mind you, but what they usually get is someone's idea of safe and then it rolls downhill even further and faster.

[Tangerine Toad]

KBAM: Why don't you post your well thought out response on my blog and keep the conversation there instead of hijacking GP's thread.

Just a simple cut and paste.

[George Parker]

Toad...
Stop trying to steal my readers!!! Just kidding. I think we share many of them anyway. Which is proof that certain blogs attract certain people. The one's that merely show a pastiche of ads we've already seen a million times appeal to some, those with something to say that's worth listening to are attracted to us. Anyway... This is a very interesting thread, and does reflect the concern of many people today. I'll have more to say on it later.
Cheers/George

[Tangerine Toad]

G: You were here first though, and your blog has gotten me most of my regular readers.

KBAM- thanks for reposting. Much appreciated.

[makethelogobigger]

Because clicks are something tangible the client can see, forget the fact there's no guarantee they do anything additional for the brand. This is the new shell game media-based agencies run 'proving' ROI: ‘X number of clicks and minutes spent on your site = success.”

Oh, as GP would say, fuck me then. Here I thought x amount of actual PURCHASES equaled success.

I think the Amish have it right: no computers.

[the lower depths]

every time you click through a website, an Amish child weeps...

[theo kie]

lower depths, I understand your point to some extent (I suppose I'm lucky to work for people who still want to get good work out the door).

Still, why do you think so many agency "managers" want to homogenize things? Because that's what clients have taught us they want. If clients were screaming for better creative, do you think management would say, "No, let's make it 'safer'"? Hardly.

The people you talk of are "yes men" (and women). They do what they think the client wants, so when clients are bad the work suffers - even before it gets to said clients.

[the lower depths]

theo, i understand your point and i do agree, it's just that it takes 2 to buy that crappy Edsel that's been sitting in the back of the lot since forever.

bad agency people have been schooling bad client people and vice versa. the cycle is completing itself and as a result you have what's commonly refered to as modern advertising.

in the current financial climate, how many good managers want to risk upsetting the client? hardly any is the correct answer. therefore any work that is seen as "provacative" or "too forward" is deemed a risk.

David Ogilvy said "Most agencies run scared, most of the time... Frightened people are powerless to produce good advertising..." and i hardly ever quote Ogilvy but if the shoe fits....

[popgoestheweasel]

Well, not to put too fine a point on it ... No, hang on, if the point's worth sharpening, it's worth sharpening until the point's sharp enough to fucking shave with: I don't give a fiddler's fuck HOW clever anyone is with their Mac, an ad (or any piece of creative work) that doesn't have interesting content isn't an ad (or whatever), it's a fucking SHELL. And just because when you pick a shell up on the beach, its occupant long since gone under normal circumstances, just because one can hear what one believes to be the sea, it does not mean that it is. God! After 25 years or more of bashing my brains out attempting to make this fucking point I'm close, very close, to giving up the whole creative life to go and drive a fucking dump truck "Oops! Sorry Mr. Yuppie, was that your brand new Merc I've just written off. Officer, I never felt a thing. The bastard never signaled, nor nuffink!" I suggest we cordon off Madison Avenue and all cross streets, bring in FEMA, declare artistic martial law, ransack all the Mad Ave creative shops, pile up all their stuff in Central Park, and torch it!
I love the smell of burning foam core in the morning! The world of crapvertising reminds me of an old Russian joke about the leading Soviet newspapers Pravda (truth) and Izvestia (news). Russians used to joke that in the Truth there was no news and in the News there was no truth. We've gone way beyond this point: in advertising there is no Content, and in Content, there is no substance worth shouting about. Here's brandy in yer glass and real books in yer mits.

[the lower depths]

hey pop...speaking of real books...i just finished Christopher Hitchens new one: "god is not great, how religion poisons everything" why not take a pointer and start penning your opus?

i'm thinking "advertising: a great way to feel dirty ALL the time"

[popgoestheweasel]

Personally, and in order to keep my home life as clean as possible from the infection we call advertising, I've been showering in bleach every night before going home. My wife thinks I work in a prison, which, in a manner of speaking, I suppose we all do.

[the lower depths]

and you thought slavery was dead?

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n Bike shares many similarities with its big brother, the HUMMER vehicle: military heritage, off-road capabilities and innovation in design [url=http://www.hummer.happyhost.org/hummer-memphis-tennessee.html]hummer memphis tennessee[/url] This four-door crew-cab model, with may be joined later on by a two-door utility with an extended bed for greater commercial-vehicle applications [url=http://www.hummer.happyhost.org/hummer-h1-for-sale.html]hummer h1 for sale[/url] "Our growth will be downwards in terms of size," Mr Walsh says, adding: "Opportunities will lie in smaller segments [url=http://www.hummer.happyhost.org/hummer-colorado-springs.html]hummer colorado springs[/url] S [url=http://www.hummer.happyhost.org/fort-hummer-pierce.html]fort hummer pierce[/url] In the next few years, GM introduced two new homegrown models, the H2 and H3, and renamed the original vehicle H1 [url=http://www.hummer.happyhost.org/greensboro-hummer.html]greensboro hummer[/url] The HMMWV runs on a 24V system, where the two batteries
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